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Post by Pav on Jul 14, 2012 3:49:13 GMT
Allows for linear adjustable common trainable attributes for those that want to help improve the balance of the game by trying different options. Currently it appears the game is not favoring weak/slick boxers. www.box2glory.com/fightsimtest.htm |
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Post by bullan on Jul 15, 2012 14:42:29 GMT
Is this due to the sim itself or because "sissy" type boxers etc dont get favoured by the randomness of fighter creation ( i.e. a strong fighter might still knock you over but a weak one with any sort of hole(s) in the build might easily fold like a pack of cards when a more robust guy goes to town especially with built in scouting ( which I think is great BTW for whatever thats worth : )) ? Not that I know the answer one way or the other just curious  |
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Post by Pav on Jul 15, 2012 15:01:41 GMT
I would not know.i do not have time to play. I put this game together assuming that there would have to be rebalancing that would be taking place as i get feedback from players. Grosmeister pointed out some and as i looked over mostly ai managed fighters i saw that sissies were not doing well. The test fightsim is for all you webl gurus to help me find a better balance.
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Post by bullan on Jul 15, 2012 15:28:55 GMT
Yeah , to be honest am just theory crafting & tend not to run sissies ( here or WEBL for that matter ) . Just surmising that if a manager can see ( or even if they dont maybe ) the opp is low STR /KP they might well go to town & the sissy falls over unless they have great chin/footwork/defence etc ( and enough speed to win rounds while still having a high defence ) whereas the stronger/explodier boxer might have a fairly deficient build but get away with it more as they cant necessarily be attacked so hard ( right away anyways ) . Will try to find time to play around with the sim test a bit more of course . Edit after : So far seems sissies that rely on outside get progressively weaker ( cant train height unless we have medieval racks ), sissies that get less sissy with a bit of str/explosiveness for successful countering do OK . About 5-10% increase in the effect of footwork seems to even things out a bit vs pure strength & maybe 10 % vs KP - but again am using very simple plans as not a sissy master so your mileage may vary ( a lot ) . Am not advocating change BTW just giving feedback |
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Post by Unforgiven on Jul 15, 2012 19:04:58 GMT
I had a fighter that was of a general build of a counter puncher or non explosive dancer and the main problem seemed to be he just bled health even when using the most efficient of tactics. I dont know if this was because the other fighters were super strong (which I found out they were not), or lowish stamina (6 or less have a very hard time finishing a fight).
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Post by punchy on Jul 15, 2012 19:09:22 GMT
I would not know.i do not have time to play. I put this game together assuming that there would have to be rebalancing that would be taking place as i get feedback from players. Grosmeister pointed out some and as i looked over mostly ai managed fighters i saw that sissies were not doing well. The test fightsim is for all you webl gurus to help me find a better balance. I think that you are on to something here, in fact that is very much my experience of the game so far. I have one fighter who has some very useful stats but a chin like Errol Christie and that is almost impossible to do anything about under the current set up. As I said before, one thing to consider might be to allow Chin to be an attribute to be trained? |
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Post by bullan on Jul 15, 2012 19:25:34 GMT
The chin training idea sounds like a positive move ( & if we have to work for it and theres an opportunity cost rather than a stat just being plain boosted not unbalancing ? )
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Post by punchy on Jul 15, 2012 20:40:15 GMT
I would also suggest making chin improvements non linear I.e. make it quicker to get from 5 chin to 10 chin than it would be to go from 10 to 15. That way a relatively low chinned fighter can get to a reasonable level relatively easily but moving from medium to chin to high chin is very difficult, as indeed would be in reality (some in fact believe that you cannot train chin at all in reality).
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Post by Pav on Jul 15, 2012 21:22:03 GMT
The point is to have a good sissy to able to beat an average anyone. But is possible in a game today? I think not.
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Post by punchy on Jul 16, 2012 12:37:03 GMT
The point is to have a good sissy to able to beat an average anyone. But is possible in a game today? I think not. I think you are wrong. I just set up a fight under the existing sim with a well built sissy against a well built slugger and used my standard outside plan against my standard slugger plan. Both plans are quite long and detailed and account for various scenarios. The slugger tended to slightly have the edge but most fights went the distance and ended in split decisions and the sissy was able to win a reasonable number of decisions. The problem lies with crappy builds and not in my opinion with the sim. A poorly built slugger will likely beat a poorly built sissy because he can just go for a flash (particularly if he has decent EXP) and the sissy cannot do anything about it but a well build sissy i.e. one with a decent chin and some advantage in SPD and AGL can win a decsion or if the slugger is flashing, use counter with power to KO him. So I think that managers will find that as they acquire better fighters they will find that sissy's, low strenght fighters, agile fighters, counter punchers etc can all fair ok. The problem is that at the lower levels sissies are badly built and often have weak chins. I reiterate that I would NOT rush into changing the sim until managers have had the chance to test things out with better fighters at a higher level. |
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Post by Pav on Jul 16, 2012 12:52:00 GMT
Punchy, i will not change engine without warning everyone well in advance. I am not planning to do so and will wait to see. Currently I will work on building tournaments where managers will create their own builds. Hopefully, we will see some decent sissy builds and will see how well they do in these tournaments.
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Post by punchy on Jul 16, 2012 13:08:54 GMT
Are all current fighters Randomly built? If so then a solution going forward might be to build randomly but within a tighter set of criteria. As it is there really are some terrible, almost unworkable builds...
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Post by Pav on Jul 16, 2012 13:13:51 GMT
Are all current fighters Randomly built? If so then a solution going forward might be to build randomly but within a tighter set of criteria. As it is there really are some terrible, almost unworkable builds... There are few truly randomly build fighters the rest do follow some criteria. Maybe its not tight enough. But I think once managers are allowed to create their own that problem will go away on its own. |
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Post by jimsardonic on Jul 20, 2012 0:15:25 GMT
A fascinating thread, and already a pretty sweet game. I do want to weigh in on the sissy issue, briefly. In a proper balanced sim, I don't believe a sissy build will be truly viable. Here is why: They are the one of two truly one dimensional builds that have existed, the other being Flashers. With a flasher, ifs a coinflip -- catch the opponent off guard and win, or lose. With a sissy, the only option is slapping. So where any other build can play the late game coinflip of going for KO or trying to win the decision-- sissies cannot. This one dimensional nature is what renders them unviable in a balanced sim, in my opinion. Even a clincher has been known to clinch-slap to get an opponent to open up for more damage. Sissies just dont have that option. Good to have these discussions again |
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Post by Unforgiven on Jul 20, 2012 0:46:05 GMT
I think we are talking not about a defenseless sissy but more of a lower strength dancer. A lower strength dancer should be able to outscore a balanced fighter or counterpunch to defend themselves if a balanced opens way up. As it is now I dont know if that type of fighter can last 12 rounds. I will have to sim to see where it plays out.
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