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Post by Pav on Jul 20, 2012 20:28:56 GMT
9 CHN Slugger using 0/15-B/30/55{ring} will beat most flashes, except against allout by a Flasher running 19 CHN But 9 CHN Slugger using 0/15-H/30/55{ring} will mostly be unbeatable If so, can we adjust effect of some attributes to make it more reasonable balance. I have this tool www.box2glory.com/fightsimtest.htmIt allows linear adjustments. |
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Post by llecha on Jul 20, 2012 20:30:43 GMT
The fight part is not too important. You'll never need good FP to beat -5 APs fighter. Not nice.  I hope fight part is also important. If you can find a -5AP fighter go for it and schedule a fight with him, but once you are fighting for championship you will be fighting with whomever hold the belt and may not have any AP advantage. To have a good fight part we need to have equal conditions for both managers. It means equal working/style APs for both fighters and good fight balance in the game. I mean- to have good endurance war fight we need: speed + str + footwork + stamina + defence of first fighter must be euqal to speed + str + footwork + stamina + defence of the second fighter, in this case we'll have interesting fight and you'll need a good FP to win. If you have few wrong placed APs (in expl for example) your chances to win are poor. That's what fight balance mean I guess. |
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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 20, 2012 20:33:56 GMT
ß ìîãó îïèñàòü ñàìûå ýôôåêòèâíûå áèëäû áåçêïøíèêîâ â âåáëå. ÊÏ áèëäû ÷åòêèìè ïàöàíàìè âñåãäà ñ÷èòàëèñü ëîõîâñêèìè. Ëè÷ ïðàâäà â îñíîâíîì óïðàâëÿë êàê ðàç ÊÏ áèëäàìè. È åùå ìåíÿ ó÷èë êàê èìè óïðàâëÿòü. Âîò îòðûâîê èç åãî õýëïà ïî áèëäàì ÊÏ áîéöîâ. "ÊÏ-ñèññè.(12-4,9-3).Íó 9-3 ýòî î÷åíü ýêñòðåìàëüíî,à 12-4 ìîæíî âïîëíå. Ëåã÷å íàáèðàòü î÷êè,ñëîæíåå ñòàíèòü. Åùå õóæå øàíñû ïðîòèâ ñëàããåðà. Çàòî ëó÷øå ïðîòèâ ðîïèñòà è êîíòðïàí÷åðà. ÊÏ-áàëàíñåä (18-6,èëè ñêîðåå 21-7) áîëåå ñëîæåí â óïðàâëåíèè. Ñëèøêîì ìíîãî î÷êîâ çàáèòî â ñèëó-ÊÏ,êîòîðûå ïðè íàáîðå î÷êîâ äæåáàìè áåñïîëåçíû. Äîðîæå îáõîäèòñÿ ëþáàÿ ïîïûòêà ñòàíà,ìíîãî âûíîñëèâîñòè ñðàçó óõîäèò. Îïïîíåíòû èìåþò õîðîøèå ñòèëåâûå âàðèàíòû ïî òîé æå ïðè÷èíå. Èìååò ñìûñë èñïîëüçîâàòü òÿæåëûé áèëä äëÿ 21-7 îñîáåííî.Õîðîøèé ÷èí 15-16,äàñò âîçìîæíîñòü þçàòü àëëàóò. ß âîîáùå íå ëþáëþ àëëàóò,ò.ê. òóò ñëèøêîì ìíîãîå çàâèñèò îò âåçåíèÿ è íåò âòîðîãî øàíñà ïðàêòè÷åñêè,åñëè íå óáèë ñîïåðíèêà,òî âûíîñëèâîñòü ñëèòà ê åäðåíå ôåíå."   Êñòàòè Ðîêïëåéñ î÷åíü òîëêîâûé ïàðåíü, åìó íåìíîæêî íå õâàòàåò îïûòà, íî îí óìíûé è ñêëîíåí ê ìàòåìàòèêå. Ó ìåíÿ íèêîãäà íå ïîëó÷àëîñü òàê õîðîøî ðàñ÷èòàòü êàê ó íåãî. |
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Post by Rockplace on Jul 20, 2012 20:41:16 GMT
Pav, it would to a dis-service to this community for me to post statements here based on a different simulator. I will always verify my facts/opinions in the B2G sim before posting here, otherwise I would look the fool.  I intentionally contracted 2 boxers belonging in the same weight class in order that I could sim many plans and strategy variations against each other for hours on end to better understand the inner workings of what lies under the sim. WeBL has given me a good foundation to work by factoring FP lines in multiples of five, but the outcomes in your sim are different due to it's unique mechanics. Oh, and Powerlille, the AP difference between fighters here as opposed to WeBL is not as significant. The B2G fighters have many non-core abilities that have no direct bearing to the sim itself eg media savvy. The abilities relating to taunting also only have a minor influence on the sim when taunting is used. Only the AP difference in the core abilities bear any relevance, so a fighter with a 5 AP deficiency may not be as bad as it looks, he may very well have an AP advantage in the core abilities. |
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Post by Pav on Jul 20, 2012 20:41:44 GMT
Not nice. I hope fight part is also important. If you can find a -5AP fighter go for it and schedule a fight with him, but once you are fighting for championship you will be fighting with whomever hold the belt and may not have any AP advantage. To have a good fight part we need to have equal conditions for both managers. It means equal working/style APs for both fighters and good fight balance in the game. I mean- to have good endurance war fight we need: speed + str + footwork + stamina + defence of first fighter must be euqal to speed + str + footwork + stamina + defence of the second fighter, in this case we'll have interesting fight and you'll need a good FP to win. If you have few wrong placed APs (in expl for example) your chances to win are poor. That's what fight balance mean I guess. Lyosha, it is true that this game will never have as much importance of fightplan at WEBL. You can manage your fighter here. You can choose your fights, move between divisions. Get a shot at title when you think are boxer are in prime position to get it , when your have advantage in stats, morale, experience, etc. Given all that I still do not want to have only one build of boxer that can be most successful. I want to have 3 types and a cycle with 1 advantage over 2, 2 advantage of 3, 3 advantage over 1. Hope we will find it. |
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Post by Rockplace on Jul 20, 2012 20:52:08 GMT
Pav, I wouldn't suggest any linear adjustments in terms of the effects of the flash and counter-flash lines I referred to above. Only certain ratios of lines will work, which goes both ways. Not all flashes are effective and not all counter-flashes will work every time which is a good think. I am quite happy with this balance at the moment.
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Post by llecha on Jul 20, 2012 21:05:04 GMT
Yep, I just try- through talking with other guys and you- to find out what is this game about. Comparing with WeBL is cos we played it and it's easy for us to understand some things through it.
Your manager is much more complex than WeBL was. WeBL was just a sim of boxing fighting.
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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 20, 2012 21:11:21 GMT
Yep, I just try- through talking with other guys and you- to find out what is this game about. Comparing with WeBL is cos we played it and it's easy for us to understand some things through it. Your manager is much more complex than WeBL was. WeBL was just a sim of boxing fighting. You smart, you really smart. Maybe you wisdom. ;D  What to do with balance? ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Rockplace on Jul 20, 2012 21:25:36 GMT
Yep, I just try- through talking with other guys and you- to find out what is this game about. Comparing with WeBL is cos we played it and it's easy for us to understand some things through it. Your manager is much more complex than WeBL was. WeBL was just a sim of boxing fighting. Yeah, it took me a while to stop thinking in 4B/8/8 and start thinking in 0/20-B/40/40 etc BUT I really really really miss the "round" conditionals. Made FP writing very quick and easy. I do love the fact that we can now see exactly which FP lines are triggered in each round! ;D |
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Post by llecha on Jul 20, 2012 21:39:32 GMT
Yeah, I remember Pav promised to think about "round". I miss it too. It's very useful condition for FPs.
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Post by jimsardonic on Jul 20, 2012 21:53:20 GMT
I do love the fact that we can now see exactly which FP lines are triggered in each round! ;D
True, this is an awesome feature!
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Post by Pav on Jul 20, 2012 21:56:35 GMT
Yeah, I remember Pav promised to think about "round". I miss it too. It's very useful condition for FPs. Its on a list. It is not easy to add so its in line. Would you not rather have tournaments first where you create your own boxers! And then there are many users in two other countries that want their counties to be supported. It's a process. |
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Post by Rockplace on Jul 20, 2012 22:43:03 GMT
Hey, the fact that there is even a list that is actually being attended to is good enough for me!
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Post by punchy on Jul 23, 2012 16:25:29 GMT
A few people have mentioned this already but I will just chip in ( I am on holiday so my internet time is limited). There are lots of non core stats here that make a peripheral difference so as I think Rockplace said you can be several AP's down and still have a better fighter. Also things like experience, morale and flare can tip a fight in your favour here, even if you are down a few AP's in core stats. We MUST get away from the idea that this is WeBL mkII, it isn't and personally I don't want it to be. As far as I can see there is not a major imbalance in the sim, all fighters here have a bit of KP and I guess that is something that we are not used to. So a ropist here would looks different to a ropist in WeBL as here you probably need a little KP to make a ropist truly effective, same with a slugger or a counterpuncher.
I now have 5 fighters here with a variation of stats. 2 of them really need to win early and use their KP as they have stamina deficiencies but I am training their stamina and maybe they will evolve over time. 1 of them has good fighting stats but a pretty suspect chin so he needs to matched carefully to get the best out of him but I am training his defence so maybe he will become more viable when his defence gets higher; maybe not though as I still haven't worked out how much a good defence can outweigh a weak chin. Another fighter I have has a superb chin but a weak defence but he doesn't seem to get ko'd much so maybe that might go some way to answering my last point?
I guess what i am trying to say is that we should all spend a lot more time trying to work out what DOES work before focusing too much on what does not. Maybe a defence of 15 can counter the effects of having a 5 chin for example. If it doesn't then maybe we could look at giving a greater impact on defence? There are lots of factors at work here, lots for us to learn, so maybe none of us are really equiped to comment too much on the sim just yet and we should just play the game and get some experience before getting too bogged down in the balance of the sim?
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Post by Pav on Jul 23, 2012 17:11:09 GMT
A few people have mentioned this already but I will just chip in ( I am on holiday so my internet time is limited). There are lots of non core stats here that make a peripheral difference so as I think Rockplace said you can be several AP's down and still have a better fighter. Also things like experience, morale and flare can tip a fight in your favour here, even if you are down a few AP's in core stats. We MUST get away from the idea that this is WeBL mkII, it isn't and personally I don't want it to be. As far as I can see there is not a major imbalance in the sim, all fighters here have a bit of KP and I guess that is something that we are not used to. So a ropist here would looks different to a ropist in WeBL as here you probably need a little KP to make a ropist truly effective, same with a slugger or a counterpuncher. I now have 5 fighters here with a variation of stats. 2 of them really need to win early and use their KP as they have stamina deficiencies but I am training their stamina and maybe they will evolve over time. 1 of them has good fighting stats but a pretty suspect chin so he needs to matched carefully to get the best out of him but I am training his defence so maybe he will become more viable when his defence gets higher; maybe not though as I still haven't worked out how much a good defence can outweigh a weak chin. Another fighter I have has a superb chin but a weak defence but he doesn't seem to get ko'd much so maybe that might go some way to answering my last point? I guess what i am trying to say is that we should all spend a lot more time trying to work out what DOES work before focusing too much on what does not. Maybe a defence of 15 can counter the effects of having a 5 chin for example. If it doesn't then maybe we could look at giving a greater impact on defence? There are lots of factors at work here, lots for us to learn, so maybe none of us are really equiped to comment too much on the sim just yet and we should just play the game and get some experience before getting too bogged down in the balance of the sim? I agree that there are much better builds higher up. So there is a reason for you see a flasher with chin=7 being ranked #35 in your nation. But you know? He might be great at media and exiting as hell, so you can actually do well signing him and enjoying more $$. Yes, you can have losses on your record, but it is just part of the game here as you build yourself up. And I agree that fighplans are not the only thing that wins you fight. It is only one of several things. But I certainly do not mind people using fightsimtest to help experiment with balancing the game. I do not want to have onlyone type of boxer, strategy that can have success. Using simulators can help to run many fights quickly and see what adjustments could be made to make balance better. It is a process that will take time. With user created boxers we should see imbalances faster as well. It is one thing to run fightsimtest. but everyone tend to note problems faster when it matters ;D |
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I hope fight part is also important. 
