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Post by jimsardonic on Jul 25, 2012 2:34:07 GMT
I have just a few suggestions:
-- Perhaps add a chat feature, IRC-style (and perhaps even a simbot type bot). This was a relatively popular feature in Webl at certain points of it's life and could be good here, especially in the early going as we're all trying to figure things out.
-- I couldn't find a schedule anywhere, saying which weights fight on which nights. Perhaps it would be a good thing to link in the manual, unless I missed this?
-- Navigation is a bit confusing, it took me a while to figure out how to find the rankings. I struggle sometimes too, when trying to find how my fighters react to what I say ("You're a ray of sunshine in a division full of bums!" and whatnot). Naturally this is all getting easier the more time I spend here, but I still do some searching around to try to find things.
-- Definitely would help to find a way to shorten the time between signing up & continuing on with the rest of the gym. I fear that people who aren't already accustomed to this type of game will grow tired of waiting or reading the manual (the tldr generation) before anything exciting happens for them.
Just a few random uestions:
- Is weight directly influenced by height & STR like it was in Webl? Or is the only way to get an accurate idea on particular stat ranges going to be by using a scout?
- Is there any way to figure how many stat points an opposing boxer has?
Both of those refer indirectly to trying to find the best configuration of stat points to simulate prospective opponents in the practice sim. I'm struggling with sorting it out, though.
All in all a great game, so far. I look forward to seeing what the future brings!
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Post by Pav on Jul 25, 2012 3:38:43 GMT
I have just a few suggestions: -- Perhaps add a chat feature, IRC-style (and perhaps even a simbot type bot). This was a relatively popular feature in Webl at certain points of it's life and could be good here, especially in the early going as we're all trying to figure things out. {PAV} Will think how to do this. -- I couldn't find a schedule anywhere, saying which weights fight on which nights. Perhaps it would be a good thing to link in the manual, unless I missed this? {PAV}There is a link on Forum. box2glory.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=fightalk&action=display&thread=253But I should put in manual as well. -- Navigation is a bit confusing, it took me a while to figure out how to find the rankings. I struggle sometimes too, when trying to find how my fighters react to what I say ("You're a ray of sunshine in a division full of bums!" and whatnot). Naturally this is all getting easier the more time I spend here, but I still do some searching around to try to find things. {PAV} Yes, I got to work on better GUI for this game. -- Definitely would help to find a way to shorten the time between signing up & continuing on with the rest of the gym. I fear that people who aren't already accustomed to this type of game will grow tired of waiting or reading the manual (the tldr generation) before anything exciting happens for them. {PAV} This is what I am currently working on. Tournaments with self-made boxers from day one. Just a few random questions: - Is weight directly influenced by height & STR like it was in Webl? Or is the only way to get an accurate idea on particular stat ranges going to be by using a scout? {PAV} No, its not. Scout is the way to go. - Is there any way to figure how many stat points an opposing boxer has? {PAV} Scout is the way to go. Don't think of it as points, just attribute stats. Both of those refer indirectly to trying to find the best configuration of stat points to simulate prospective opponents in the practice sim. I'm struggling with sorting it out, though. All in all a great game, so far. I look forward to seeing what the future brings! {PAV} Thanks for playing!
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Post by bobjoejim on Jul 26, 2012 6:07:51 GMT
I really don't like the idea of people being able to create boxers that end up in the world. The idea of tournaments is fun, and a good way to test builds and re-evaluate game balance. Letting those custom-built fighters join the world itself, though, bothers me greatly. Even more so, letting them join the world under their creator's control bothers me even more. Remember, this is a management sim first and foremost. Part of the challenge is finding good fighters. We have scouts, and should have to use them. Even so, "good" fighters are the most we should be able to hope for, prior to training them. "Perfect" or "optimal" fighters should remain in the fictional realm of side tournaments outside of the main game world.
In my opinion, at least.
Moving on to another side of this topic, something that I think would be a better approach would be to generate new fighters more frequently, while simultaneously building in some logic to make unsuccessful fighters retire sooner. It seems odd to me that there are so many fighters rolling around right now ranked in the 20-30 range, with no real hope of ever getting higher, getting knocked out repeatedly, and not really making any money. Sure some people would put up with this, but a lot of people (particularly those who had higher ambition, and who have been ignored by gyms, never offered a real contract) would hang up the gloves after just a couple of years as a punching bag.
This seems like a better way to improve the overall selection of fighters in the world. Rather than introducing perfect builds, just introduce more total boxers, then weed out the weaker ones through survival of the fittest. Any fighter not under contract and outside the top (10? 20?) should have some small chance of retiring after any fight. Increase the chance if they lost - more so if they have a losing streak. Increase the chance for each knockout they've suffered in their career. Increase the chance if their rank is low and ambition high (career dissatisfaction).
This gives a better set of boxers, over time, but still forces us to act as gym managers and actually put effort into seeking out, and then signing, the most worthwhile of the bunch.
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Post by punchy on Jul 26, 2012 7:54:02 GMT
I really don't like the idea of people being able to create boxers that end up in the world. The idea of tournaments is fun, and a good way to test builds and re-evaluate game balance. Letting those custom-built fighters join the world itself, though, bothers me greatly. Even more so, letting them join the world under their creator's control bothers me even more. Remember, this is a management sim first and foremost. Part of the challenge is finding good fighters. We have scouts, and should have to use them. Even so, "good" fighters are the most we should be able to hope for, prior to training them. "Perfect" or "optimal" fighters should remain in the fictional realm of side tournaments outside of the main game world. In my opinion, at least. Moving on to another side of this topic, something that I think would be a better approach would be to generate new fighters more frequently, while simultaneously building in some logic to make unsuccessful fighters retire sooner. It seems odd to me that there are so many fighters rolling around right now ranked in the 20-30 range, with no real hope of ever getting higher, getting knocked out repeatedly, and not really making any money. Sure some people would put up with this, but a lot of people (particularly those who had higher ambition, and who have been ignored by gyms, never offered a real contract) would hang up the gloves after just a couple of years as a punching bag. This seems like a better way to improve the overall selection of fighters in the world. Rather than introducing perfect builds, just introduce more total boxers, then weed out the weaker ones through survival of the fittest. Any fighter not under contract and outside the top (10? 20?) should have some small chance of retiring after any fight. Increase the chance if they lost - more so if they have a losing streak. Increase the chance for each knockout they've suffered in their career. Increase the chance if their rank is low and ambition high (career dissatisfaction). This gives a better set of boxers, over time, but still forces us to act as gym managers and actually put effort into seeking out, and then signing, the most worthwhile of the bunch. Great idea. The idea of fighter creation is borne out of WeBL and it seems to me that most of those that are pushing for it are seeking to make this game more like WeBL. Fighter creation would not be a problem for me as I think that my WeBL experience would give me a pretty good handle in what would work here but I think that bjg's idea would be a solution for B2G that would help it retain it's own ethos and retain what the game is all about. Once those near perfect builds start getting into the game and lets not fool ourselves, those builds will be near perfect, then those fighters will be near unbeatable by the games own random creations, particularly as their managers will be able to avoid fights against builds that are a threat...
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Post by bullan on Jul 26, 2012 8:04:30 GMT
Some good points made here IMO . Tournaments let those of us who like fighter creation do it & if they stay separate we have the best of both worlds ? Surely though any half way competent manager will be able to build a world beater without even thinking about it vs Mr/Ms random ( yeah Ms - nearly just fought a lady called "Imogen" amongst others ) . Looking forward to the tourney either way though
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Post by A. E. T. on Jul 26, 2012 8:57:21 GMT
Please don't make it possible to create fighters (outside of tournaments).
I want to win once in a while.
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Post by Pav on Jul 26, 2012 11:13:19 GMT
Lots of good suggestions here. Retire early I do like. Having tournaments as separate game ? Perhaps at first that's a way to do it. Once we find better balance to make sure there is no one perfect build we can connect the two worlds.
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Posts: 2
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Post by FBG on Jul 26, 2012 19:29:35 GMT
Great post by bobjoejim.
And like punchy pointed out, if we get to create our own fighters, all the existing ones will soon be wiped off which would be a Bad Thing.
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Post by UGI on Jul 27, 2012 4:25:41 GMT
I have thought about the created fighter vs random fighter and feel the general population of the game needs to be based on NON-custom built fighter generation.
I would like to propose that perhaps we could use a fighter creation tool similar to the WeBL pro region. The pro region was basically random fighters that were generated by the game. If I remember correctly you were given 3 "rolls" of the dice before you were stuck with what ever came up next.
This could solve many of the issues that have been discussed
Getting new gyms set up with fighters quickly Give each new gym 3 fighter creation keys or credits or whatever you want to call them. All new fighters would be created with "local" level talent. Salary should also be fixed at a reasonable level. All new gyms could have 3 new randomly generated fighters within minutes of creation. I believe this would greatly improve player retention as well.
Keeping the population of fighters random or not custom built. All new fighters would still be created based on the parameters of the current game. Instead of being released into the general population, they would just be going to the new gyms directly. Even if a new gym decides to release the new fighter they just created and sign another boxer, the population really hasn't been contaminated.
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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 27, 2012 5:49:54 GMT
I want fighters with zero record. Not a 20win 20 loss crap. I dont care, I create this fighter, or I buy this fighter in region. I hate foreign record. I want know, why I win or why I loss. It is very impotant for me. I cant create Premaid fight plan. Yes, Yes, I am bad premaid FP writer. I am allways looking vulnerabilities in enemy.
In WeBL I retired all fighter with 10 loss, even if he had more than 40 wins and no APloss.
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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 27, 2012 6:23:04 GMT
Guys. Why are you afraid of creating fighters? Smart manager still to grow beginners fighter. And I guarantee you, smart manager can raise fighter. And smart manager can bend fools manager. You are depriving yourself of the possibility of resistance. You will be easier to pass the region. You can create a problem for a smart manager if you have good fighter.
I will try to say easy. Just imagine. You have 3 fighter, all 3 crap(one leg dancer build ;D ). Some old manager have 10 fighter, have a money, have a trainer. His fighter are good. In region you never can beat this manager. In world championship you have ugly dumb crap vs good fighter. You never can win this fight. If you can create fighter, you can to resist even in the region. And who know maybe you win.
P.S. Guys. This game a horror for new manager. Old manager always beat new manager. His fighter young, training, and have a good amature record. But try to imagine. We have in game guy like Mved, or Kachalka. This guys can take all titles and you all the same in the deep ass.
P.P.S. New manager need to more easy start. Not all have the courage to endure the humiliation that would be in the region. Should increase the complexity of the game. Now new manager have bad fighter, no trainer, no scauting, no money. Old manager have all. Maybe we need equalize chance? Maybe creating fighter not a bad idea? In region new manager would be like old manager. But old manager have a good trainer. And in world championship wealth manager would have more strong fighter.
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Post by A. E. T. on Jul 27, 2012 7:51:58 GMT
I agree Gross that fighters with 20win 20 loss crap can look ugly but once your gym gets to a certain level you can sign 0-0-0 fighters more easily and then leave the 20win 20 loss crap for gyms like mine.
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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 27, 2012 8:09:56 GMT
I agree Gross that fighters with 20win 20 loss crap can look ugly but once your gym gets to a certain level you can sign 0-0-0 fighters more easily and then leave the 20win 20 loss crap for gyms like mine. Of Course you can. But as long as you're a novice, all old fighter can beat you. Do you think about noob manager, without WeBL practice? He is dont understand and all fight is lose. Very intresting game for noob. Fighter creating can equalize chance in region. But high level(World championship) not available with no money. Wealth manager always win in world league. All be happy. Noob manager can fight. Old can win World title. I try to think not about myself, not about strong and smart manager like Mved. I want to make the game interesting at all levels. At any time. And not through the years.
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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 27, 2012 8:26:10 GMT
It is not necessary to give a fighter. Maybe it will be possible to create fighter for money.
Example. Some local awards - 2000$ Local awards - 5000$ Regional awards - 10K$ National awards - 50K$ International awards - 100K$
Maybe with no awards 2500$ (lowest point) Some local awards - 5000$ Local awards - 10000$ Regional awards - 50K$ National awards - 100K$
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Post by bullan on Jul 27, 2012 10:11:04 GMT
At the moment none of us are really qualified to know for sure so maybe hold off for now ( actual changes , theory-crafting can be great ) . Re-asses & approach cautiously if this ever does happen ( start with 70 AP guys pilot study or whatever & see how that goes etc , if it does down the track ) . Advocating a cautious/middle path as damaging a game as good as this one would be a real shame . Is good to discuss all ideas though IMO
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