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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 27, 2012 12:02:31 GMT
At the moment none of us are really qualified to know for sure so maybe hold off for now ( actual changes , theory-crafting can be great ) . Re-asses & approach cautiously if this ever does happen ( start with 70 AP guys pilot study or whatever & see how that goes etc , if it does down the track ) . Advocating a cautious/middle path as damaging a game as good as this one would be a real shame . Is good to discuss all ideas though IMO Game just start. Good time to changes. Or you want change game in WeBL stile? Before a dead? ;D A few mistakes I do not see anything wrong. He Who Makes No Mistakes Makes Nothing.
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Post by bullan on Jul 27, 2012 12:07:38 GMT
Games already better than WEBL (IMO ) , am suggesting not rushing into things so that it says that way ( not saying there shouldn't be changes , but that we should be careful about the process ) .
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roco
Gatekeeper
Posts: 52
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Post by roco on Jul 27, 2012 12:23:53 GMT
Maybe if you do more vote polls, it will help you make a better decision on which direction to go. If the majority is over whelming then make the changes, but if the decision is close say 60/40 then make no changes. For example, I would not mind being able to buy certain things for my gym, if it helps my fighters train faster. So when I come to the forums with this idea, I post it you review to see if it can be done, then you put this question in a vote poll. This way members who just do not like to type, can simply push a button Yes/No. Personally I like this game as is for now. Once you get more people in, and your voting poll will tell you in which direction to go.
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Post by Pav on Jul 27, 2012 12:31:22 GMT
Good discussion. Like the early retirement idea, will do that. Will make amateur tourneys, but will not connect the two worlds at first. Will keep track of human vs human record and so people that enjoy that can stick to tourneys.
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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 27, 2012 12:31:31 GMT
Fighter creation. The pros and cons.
+ 1) The experiments with build. It is useful to study the game. 2) Every one have equal chance in region. (Veteran and noob) 3) Old gym have an advantage at high levels. (World title) 4) Easy start for noob. 5) A comfortable start for the experienced. 6) Build choice. If you want KPdancer, you have a KPdancer, if you want a Flasher you have a flasher. Not a one leg dancer build for everyone. 7) If you pay for a fighter creation. This will provide new economic opportunity.
- 1) Maybe we all create 1 dominant build. 2) In region AI will be weak. Maybe it is not so bad. 3) Maybe all manager will be create fighter. Not buy AI build. 4) Genius manager will be easy to dominanting in game. 5) At the same builds, in a battle to be addressed by accident. Cut, DQ.
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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 27, 2012 12:38:55 GMT
Good discussion. Like the early retirement idea, will do that. Will make amateur tourneys, but will not connect the two worlds at first. Will keep track of human vs human record and so people that enjoy that can stick to tourneys. Maybe create not a turnament? Maybe create region? Lightweit or welter. Everyone can create 2-3 fighter. Every one can retire his fighter and create new. King of the mount region. Good name for this region. Will be fun. Tournament it is weak testing. For example, I go my first battle. Have a cut in first round, and loss. Thats all. My experiment will be ended.
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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 27, 2012 13:01:17 GMT
Maybe if you do more vote polls, it will help you make a better decision on which direction to go. If the majority is over whelming then make the changes, but if the decision is close say 60/40 then make no changes. For example, I would not mind being able to buy certain things for my gym, if it helps my fighters train faster. So when I come to the forums with this idea, I post it you review to see if it can be done, then you put this question in a vote poll. This way members who just do not like to type, can simply push a button Yes/No. Personally I like this game as is for now. Once you get more people in, and your voting poll will tell you in which direction to go. Vote no need. Need a good testing region. When we all see the truth.
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Post by punchy on Jul 27, 2012 13:25:40 GMT
Gross I don't think you are right about new managers not having a chance early on in this game. Experienced managers are going to be too busy fighting in regional or world level fights to worry too much about signing all the best national guys, remember that they have a limit to how many fighters they have too. I like the idea of taking imperfect fighters and trying to make the best you can with them. Guys like Kachalka dominated by knowing the content of the sim, creating optimal build based on mathematics and then avoiding fights that would be very difficult for their fighters to win. Thankfully that cannot happen here and I think that is a good thing. Here Kachalka would have to work with the same imperfect builds as everybody else and if he got a title he would be forced to defend it against whoever was in line to face him, not retire and wait for a sacrificial lamb to appear.
I am not for a second trying to diminish the achievements of somebody like Kachalka, he was clearly very talented but B2G requires some different skills and I want to keep that rather than having a battle between math genius with "perfect" builds. Let's see if guys like Kachalka and Mved want to come here and train and plan fights with imperfect builds and then see if they can dominate. If they can then all respect too them but I like this game the way it is and I don't want to change it so that only Math genius can come in and dominate...Oh an 45 WeBL world titles in 2010 (just checked it on WeBL's finest) says that I have nothing to fear from fighter creation...
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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 27, 2012 13:56:49 GMT
punchy. A good mathematician can always win. Kach never be in this game. When he play in WeBL he was a young guy, he studied at the university. Now he work, and no have time to play. All WeBL chase Kach and Mved. They would hate to see you all.
If there are only old WeBL manager. And there will be noob manager. Then you will be entitled to 100%. I hope, noob come to game. I hope in region will be more real manager, not a AI.
In any case. Better to do a test area. To avoid deadlock, we will all be high-level players.
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roco
Gatekeeper
Posts: 52
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Post by roco on Jul 27, 2012 14:00:59 GMT
Gross I don't think you are right about new managers not having a chance early on in this game. Experienced managers are going to be too busy fighting in regional or world level fights to worry too much about signing all the best national guys, remember that they have a limit to how many fighters they have too. I like the idea of taking imperfect fighters and trying to make the best you can with them. Guys like Kachalka dominated by knowing the content of the sim, creating optimal build based on mathematics and then avoiding fights that would be very difficult for their fighters to win. Thankfully that cannot happen here and I think that is a good thing. Here Kachalka would have to work with the same imperfect builds as everybody else and if he got a title he would be forced to defend it against whoever was in line to face him, not retire and wait for a sacrificial lamb to appear. I am not for a second trying to diminish the achievements of somebody like Kachalka, he was clearly very talented but B2G requires some different skills and I want to keep that rather than having a battle between math genius with "perfect" builds. Let's see if guys like Kachalka and Mved want to come here and train and plan fights with imperfect builds and then see if they can dominate. If they can then all respect too them but I like this game the way it is and I don't want to change it so that only Math genius can come in and dominate...Oh an 45 WeBL world titles in 2010 (just checked it on WeBL's finest) says that I have nothing to fear from fighter creation... I agree here.
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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 27, 2012 14:17:51 GMT
Guys do you really think will be normal situation when we all will be high level manager? We will try to beat each other the same fighters. It will be very intresting. Of course punchi, roco, bullan and UGI dont want changes. ;D Are you happy that you are now at the top. And any change can change your leadership. ;D Just think about the future. I don't urge changed now all game mechanic. But need test region, need thinking. Need move forward. And do not sleep on the titles. Sloth mother of stupidity. In WeBL I dont want more title. I want title most extravagant way. Three undefeated world champion. Half a year, to arrange a carousel in the heavyweight division (unsanctioned, ducking 3 heavy fighter). KPbalanced with chin 21 world champion. Clincher in cruserweit. I gift some clincher GA he take the tittle and then I beat him ;DThe cunning plan. ;D Beat Mveds ropist with more damage. Ducking vs Ol man and beat him. ;D These dumb old fart have a big mouth. I laughed as he sobbed on the forum.
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Post by punchy on Jul 27, 2012 15:17:13 GMT
Of course punchi, roco, bullan and UGI dont want changes. ;D Are you happy that you are now at the top. And any change can change your leadership. ;D Just think about the future. I have nothing to fear from fighter creation, of the former WeBL managers that are here I think I have more world titles than any of them, that's not bragging, just a statement of fact. I just think that this is a different game, a game where management skills AND fight planning skill help you to succeed and not just the ability to manipulate the sim to create an unbeatable monster; something we all tried and to some extent succeeded at in WeBL. Also fighter creation would give a massive advantage to former WeBL managers in my opinion as we all know pretty much what is going to be the right build(s) here, others do not have that experience. I completely agree with you about a test region though and that is what Pav is addressing by creating the tournaments, I just don't want those fighters let loose in the game. I like UGI's idea and would support that.
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Post by bakalukukuk on Jul 27, 2012 15:27:03 GMT
There used to be an old game called boxing manager. You named 5 boxer's and there attributes were generated. mostly you came up with one rough diamond and 2 or 3 mediocre guys and 1 or 2 journeymans'. Back then i really enjoyed that game (approximately 15 years ago). i think such an fighter creation method would work better than the way of webl, because webl is webl and should stay webl.
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Post by Grossmeister on Jul 27, 2012 15:45:30 GMT
I completely agree with you about a test region though and that is what Pav is addressing by creating the tournaments, I just don't want those fighters let loose in the game. I like UGI's idea and would support that. I am not all understand in UGI post. Random creating Maybe will be easier give possibility set some parameters. Chin, stamina, footwork, speed, strength and explode.
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roco
Gatekeeper
Posts: 52
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Post by roco on Jul 27, 2012 16:09:15 GMT
Guys do you really think will be normal situation when we all will be high level manager? We will try to beat each other the same fighters. It will be very intresting. I do not think these fighters are the same at all. Some are taller, with longer reach but lack power. Some are shorter with shorter reach but very explosive. Some have heart, but can't take a punch, and vice versa. Of course punchi, roco, bullan and UGI dont want changes. ;D Are you happy that you are now at the top. And any change can change your leadership. ;D Just think about the future. I'm not even close to being at the top. I like this game because you can choose the best fighter for your club, train him, mentor him, and hopefully he will become champion one day. I currently play an American football rpg game , and you can actually build the players there. I do not play that game much anymore because, as a game "manager" I would much rather pick my random player and train his attributes. However, I would very much like to see more detailed options for my boxing club, like being able to buy weights for strength, and Jump ropes for stamina, just some thing more detailed in the training part of it. But not to build a player from the ground up. I gift some clincher GA he take the tittle and then I beat him ;DThe cunning plan. ;D You can do this here as well with an advanced fight plan.
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